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Vishal Chaturvedi: Every uneducated child will hamper the growth of the country... Govt. needs to understand that there is a financial involved in it... They either invest lesser money now on education, awareness OR keep this imbalance growing to a stage where its going to cost dearly...@ as Jess pointed out, if there is no social welfare in such places, crime/corruption goes up... Corruption money is black money and quickly goes out of circulation where govt. does not get taxes on it..and Crime's cost is borne by Govt. and impacts society/country negatively; list can grow here ... - Every moment wasted is adding exponential cost to India.. I hope to see the change in leadership and after reading the views on the itimes.com I think we are very near to the change... http://www.itimes.com/content.php?cid=95251
Posted on Thu, 08 Oct, 2009 Delete
Vishal Chaturvedi: @GoingRuff Thank you, you write a very true picture of the current situation and peoples mindset and how they are living and how they want to live in future... Its the chain reaction that needs to be started and you raise a great point here.. that parents need to be made aware about the possibilities...They must see the Dream to better life , they need to see and visualize for their kids. Without a will of the parents its always going to be a difficult... by no means this is an easy task to talk to individual who is not aware of the possibilities and has doubts all over his life...But if we need to make progress that needs to be coming from grassroots; Hence the opinion of teaching them "how to fish" and not give them fish on a daily basis. Also the govt. needs to understand the potential of these individuals and invest time, because if govt. doesn't realize then as you say this circle is going to grow but to break we need to invest... cont..
Posted on Thu, 08 Oct, 2009 Delete
Going Ruff: getting everything free is possible but they need the quality of educaton also,
only free education can't solve the problem, yes it is can solve this partly but still there are many more things involved and to be looked into...... also i asked for a cute little girl for adoption but they refused.... this all povery circle needs a huge boost to get them out of this... i think there is no poerrty line, if a child is fully educated then there is good future else it will still remain the same
Posted on Thu, 08 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Going Ruff: i was able to talk to one of the parents, and he says that there is no need of education for his children cause his girl child needs to learn other things.... also a girl child is a burden for them, i have seen a girl around 21-22 yrs old but was shocked to see that she had 2 kids, at this age with high fertility it is bound to be this way if she is married at a very young age.... people there doesn't have basic ammenities, food, clothing, shelter, place to learn, also @ rashmi has said in her blog of free education..... but i say do these children get the quality of education here in free education... try asking anything for free and u get an inferior quality product.... the male's do not have any entertainment and so they land up in only one thing..... if parents are educated with their kids then only we can change this scenario a bit cause this is a huge task... also these kids themselves want to work as their parents when they grow up cause they are living in that conditions....
Posted on Thu, 08 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Going Ruff: there are a lot of related problems with these children, recently i visited a place on behalf of my company for a day, its a construction site..... the main problem over there is the couples have more than 3 childrens and the elder child has to look into the household work. look after the kids as their parents work on the site.... it is very disturbing cause these children over there have lost the interest in education and also the parents says that either the boy will follow his foorsteps or the girl has to do the household work only.... so wat the matter whether he is educated or not he lands in the same place.. only one of 1000 may be getting an oppourtunity to study.
Posted on Thu, 08 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Vishal Chaturvedi: @Nani - you have made me aware one new thing today, I have read about them. I was thinking exactly on the similar lines. See, share and learn works...On itimes.com with you all I'm learning a lot; I have included some videos about your Okhla Mandi vegetable market and children their. Also have a created a group "Be aware and Empower lives" where I wish to use "share and learn" ideas to grow... You can find the videos in this group and if you have anything that you are aware pleas share...
http://www.itimes.com/main-group.php?gid=21058
Here is the website for the NGO Butterflies org
http://www.butterflieschildrights.org/home.asp
Posted on Thu, 08 Oct, 2009 Delete
Jess Kaur: @Nani, @Rashmi, @Going ....... wow, your knowledge and views are impressive! I will look for your blog Rashmi.
Posted on Wed, 07 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Jess Kaur: You have proved that you are a very intellectual man! Great reading of your blogs and even more impressed by your discussions! Look forward to them. Good answer to my query, I did not know that information about taxes in India. I am always open to new (truthful) information.
Posted on Wed, 07 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Nani Manna: Cont.... A single or a group of adolescents can apply for advance to start a business. All conditions remaining the same as in the Welfare Advance,here in case of Development Advance, every applicant should have 2 guarantors who have 5% each of the advance amount requested in his/her savings account. Advance will not be sanctioned for a business enterprise that sell cigarettes,betel leaves,alcohol,drugs,stolen articles & pornographic materials.The Advance applicant should be 15 years of age & above. In both cases, the return of the advance is important. Installments & time limits are mutually agreed upon. Besides, Butterflies also provides expert know how to the children to start a business. It does all these things to equip the children with financial management skills.
Posted on Wed, 07 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Nani Manna: @Vishal, I am again writing something about the the NGO Butterflies & how it helps the working children financially who come to attend classes there. They run a sort of Bank, called CDK (Children's Development Khajana) for the children, where children are encouraged to become members of CDK & save ,however little it may be from whatever they earn as wages in the vegetable mandi. They not only earn interest on it, but can also take Welfare Advance for education & to meet their urgent needs like purchasing clothes, ticket to go home or medical need etc. Advance cannot be taken by children on behalf of the family members,extended family members or friends. Advance proposal to be approved by the advance committee. Rs.2000/- is the upper limit for Welfare Advance. 20% of the advance amount necessary in the savings account. No guarantor is needed.No interest is applicable. they also give Develop Advance for starting business. Continued........
Posted on Wed, 07 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Vishal Chaturvedi: @GoingRuff I was thinking a special program from the Govt. to provide debt to Students who are forced into "Child Labor" by financial conditions of their parents. Debt could be the virtual money (loan acct) that gets piled up as Govt. invest money child's education and not the loan provided by the Banks. Once the child grows he will have to pay back that amount. Think that with 15 or 16 yrs of education, child can add to GDP, growth and fight Poverty and corruption. Education is one tool where oneself realizes by his own hard word and adapts the path for successful life...As India gets into market based economy, it will certainly need educated people to grow. Agriculture needs to induct little of Technology in India so many thing that India is already good at...workmanship is outstanding in Indian people... I believe Education is one of the most important key to break this shackle of Poverty and get on path of growth... @Rashmi I have left comment on your blog.. Thank you all
Posted on Wed, 07 Oct, 2009 Delete
Rashmi Manna: I would request all the respected members to kindly visit my blog on Child labor..... there are certain views I would like to share and know your opinion about.
Posted on Wed, 07 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Rashmi Manna: I agree with Jess and my father Mr Nani Manna. @ Ruff sterilization would be too rough a step. they are human beings not stray animals..... Even we are sterilizing stray animals because we cannot take care of them.... and one more thing we should stop referring to the underprivileged, or poor as "these people". They are not a disease that needs to be curbed or eradicated. They are a part of us as a society. When a member of our family is a little less gifted, be it education or finance...... do we prohibit him from having a life? We try to help him get his things and act in place.
Y ..... we have seen families hiding dreadful diseases in people to get the member married anyhow, without thinking of the consequences his poor wife or future children have to face.... we are educated , then why we could not practice restrain..... Similarly we need to take the underprivileged with us ... teach them how to have a better life.
Posted on Wed, 07 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Going Ruff: @ Vishal....... a student loan is only provided to a student who doesn't needs it.... in short try applying a student loan and you have to follow loads of paper work and formalities...... do u think these people may afford a student loan..... who don't have their residence, place, or even security...... our govt has introduced birth's at free of cost, due to this people don't hink before going for another child, i agree with the point of taxation, but there is an inflation in taxes in last 5 years but we still earn more or less same salaries........ does the govt ever think of the local groceries & their costs...... and then we are forced to invest hugely to save tax......... its a vicious poverty circle in the hands of these people....... you will come to the same point from where you started.......
Posted on Wed, 07 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Vishal Chaturvedi: Guys, I'm excited to see so much activity on topic. Thank you. @Jess, I like your straight comment - BTW Taxes in India are equivalent to USA and probably bit more than Canada if you count the CORRUPTION that one has to deal, on a daily basis to get things done. Also, Its not about me; but its about the Policies and impact to overall Country. Would it be fair to tax more to already taxed responsible citizens for the irresponsible people who are basically rooting the "Child Labor"?. This is about the bringing behavioral change in people; and ideas to help change it - @GoingRuff raises a very valid point "if govt pays money to Children then it may boost population"; I think there are already population control measure in India, most of them probably unaware of it.. I wouldn't want anyone get forced into it..That is just not democratic, in my opinion. Is the student loan for education fair? Or community service after the education completion? "earn and learn" policies??
Posted on Wed, 07 Oct, 2009 Delete
Going Ruff: The situation is going to be the same, whether you help or not...... they are still gonna make them work...... @vishal.... suggest something more worthy..... i have heard about these measures years ago....... but eventually it is of no use...... the best way i would sugeest is sterlization should be at free of cost for these people, we can't stop them but atleast we can stop the growth....... may be this may help....... my comment may be irrational for some but think guys....... do you want to see such people growing in your society........ if these measures are takes atleast there is a stop for all these....... on an avg these couples have a minimum of 5 children, and remember this is not just one area........ its spread all over country...... thinking of a remedy is simple... but it should be worked out
Posted on Tue, 06 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Jess Kaur: @Going, yes that is what is happening here. Kids are produced for the child benefits. But there was no social welfare here, there would be a lot more crime!
Posted on Tue, 06 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Going Ruff: hahahaha....... right said jess...... but i want to throw some light on taht part (*Rs10/20 per day per child), if they are going to get money like this then be prepared for a long queue of childrens they gonna make, cause for them an extra child is an extra Rs10.....
Posted on Tue, 06 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Jess Kaur: @Vishal, so why not if we pay higher taxes? WE pay very very high taxes in Canada (similar in the USA). What a small way to help our fellow brothers and sisters who by luck or choice are life's victims.
So let me understand - you want to shed light on the situation BUT you don't want to part with your money. Nice.
Posted on Tue, 06 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Vishal Chaturvedi: So where would Government get the money from? 2 possible ways... Higher taxes to existing population OR more debt ? Both are non popular stance for any political parties...
And even if the Govt. puts these programs - Can corruption make it reach to the people in need? I have been informed by few folks who have seen such programs by the govt.its not even reaching the right folks.. whatever reaches it about Rs. 40 of Rs. 100 allocated... What a poor state of affairs? Again coming back to blood sucking parasite... CORRUPTION.. What we going to do about it?
Posted on Sat, 03 Oct, 2009
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Jess Kaur: I completely agree with Nani! It is easy to sit somewhere else talk in ideals while reality is a different matter.
Case: A documentary on Iranian children working as rug weavers in an Iranian village showed that some concientious do-gooders tried to expose this practice. Subsequently, the "do-gooders" were harrassed, thrown out and beaten up by the parents and children because they said that they were taking food out of their mouth.
So before you beat the drum and feel good about exposing and changing the world - MAKE SURE YOU SET IN PLACE AN ALTERNATIVE INCOME GENERATING INDUSTRY FOR THEM!!!! Otherwise YOU will be the oppressor who has taken away the only means of sustenance for these down and out people.
The most realistic option is Government intervention! The key is Social Welfare. Government provides food and shelter to the poor so that the children can go to school.
Posted on Fri, 02 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Vishal Chaturvedi: Nani and all - Thanks for your comments ... Nani - Its great that Children can do work and learn... to help their family, themselves and they yet do not understand but they are helping their country.. My worry seems that its difficult to balance this in the long run;... But if it works nothing like. Although my believe that Child labor needs to be addressed by bringing awareness within Parent,Employers and Enforcement Agencies. There are are already laws in India,UN and Human rights org but at some levels they are not enough or not being worked diligently.. I admire your effort on "Teach India"... Great Job and Keep it up. I hope to join as a Social Activities in the future in India too..
Posted on Fri, 02 Oct, 2009 Delete
Nani Manna: (Continued from my comments on 27th Sept.) I am A Teach India volunteer attached to the NGO Butterflies. I go to Okhla Mandi vegetable market once a week to teach working children there. Little boys & girls who come there to attend classes are all working children. They work in the vegetable market & come to learn at the teaching point. One has to see it to believe the happiness, enthusiasm & determination I have found on their faces. To know more about these children ,please have a look at my blog "The Hopes Of India".
Posted on Thu, 01 Oct, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Ashok Kumar Dubey: Child Labour problem is very old problem in India and it is increasing day by day. In India children are the great labour force. So many industries are there who specially engaging only children that too between age group of10-14yrs. There are such factories where only children are working. As the employer knows they are greatest silent labour force. Specially in carpet industry. many a times child welfare department raid the premises catch the employer but they are free other days to work as it is reason being the factory owner may be some relative to minister or a great gunda of the area. This is the ground reality and a bare truth. Judiciary and police in India has bcome great nexus of getting these social enemies work at their ease. No Govt policy can help it. even rich people prefer a boy less than age of 14 to work in their household works, it is prefered domestic help. But even they are rescued from the clutch of the Employer they are more molested and harrassed in remand home .
Posted on Sun, 27 Sep, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Jasbir Arora: I fully agree with Mr Nani. Unless the problem of poverty is addressed the induction of child labour will continue. The other factor in my opinion is greed. There are organised rackets controlled by big guns who force children to beg, work and to do what not and proceeds of the day goes to the bosses. I feel that we all also are contributing to the cause. How many of us are denying employment to an under aged domestic help ??
Posted on Sun, 27 Sep, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
P M Lakhotia: Primarily, parents must be held responsible too. They deny their children the benefits of education. They might be poor but they are greedy too. They force their children to earn and even support thier family. I have seen poor parents producing as many as six seven children. Why? More hands, more money!
The basic problem is one of education and awareness. Alas! Our intellectual writings and drawing room iscussions do not reach them. We must spend at least a part of life, working for them in the areas of need. That alone can be effective. We will surely pick up sme dust and stain but are we ready for t?
Posted on Sun, 27 Sep, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Aditi Sharma: well,,very aptly said,,but i feel this vicious circle of poverty cn come to an end once v have stringent laws regatding childlabor,,,unemployment..etc,,,y in india cant v hav one child policy like china,,only dat will serve as real,,saver,,against all the social vices n biases excisting in our indian middle clAssssssss
Posted on Sun, 27 Sep, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Nani Manna: Children go to work due to the poverty of their parents.It is not only the question of money ,it is the question of survival. The poor uneducated parents who can not arrange two square meals for their family,left with no option but to send their children to work & earn. So besides taking legal action against the erring employers who utilise the services of these children, it is also the duty of the government to improve the lot of the poor people & create awareness about the hazards of sending their children to work at such a tender age. Until & unless the condition of the poor families improve , no alternative is provided to compensate the families' income, in the event of stopping their children to earn the malady of child labour will continue to prick our conscience. Until any substantive steps are taken , besides punishing the errant employers, to tackle the problem effectively, I see no harm ,if a child earns & learns at the same time. Cont...
Posted on Sun, 27 Sep, 2009 Delete | Report abuse
Vishal Chaturvedi: Prashant - Again.. Corruption plays in and starts ruining the very purpose... I'm 100% with you on it.. but seems like everyone has got some responsibility to fight it.. I have created group and forum to "report corruption", share, learn and educate people about it.. Will be stop corruption? probably not... But will compliment to overall fight.. It sure will... Please share.. if you have experienced it..
http://reportcorruption.forumotion.com/
American Education system is working with property taxes that home owners are paying.... America and India - Two very different countries, people and lifestyle - I agree in America there is lot of learn...so as in India..
Posted on Sat, 26 Sep, 2009 Delete
Prashanth Kumar: Vishal, We dont have strict labor laws. Child under 15 cannot be employed. They should be at school. Our system has to change, usa govt provides free public schooling for all the kids, only college u need financial aid. Education is a right. It is hard to find a school going kid at home or playing on streets.
To promote this, our govt should be proactive in opening govt schools in each remote village or nearest taluk. Even likeminded public can do this pvt to uplift their areas by investing in education. As we know , we had a free meal programme in many schools but doubtful of how much it is implemented or eaten by local politics.
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